Terrorists Anonymous: Meeting with Judge al-Hittar, the mastermind behind Yemen's Mujahadeen rehabilation program (By Taimoor)

Since September 11, many countries in the Middle East have cracked down on terrorism and religious extremism, partly as a way of appeasing an increasingly critical international community, particularly the United States, and partly as a way of combating internal threats such as destabilization, violence, and, in some cases, the undermining of State hegemony in the public sphere. With the collapse of the Taliban led Afghan regime, expatriates training to be Mujahadeen in Yemen began to flood back into their countries of origin. For many Arab countries, these Mujahadeen, or “Afghan Arabs”, were and remain a security threat as well as somewhat of an international embarrassment, and the common policy is to simply imprison them indefinitely with no trial.

(Isabelle asking questions)

Yemen, which has the largest population of Afghan Arabs, has implemented an alternative strategy of rehabilitation that is, by most accounts, highly effective. The Duke Engage Team (Ella Lipin, Isabelle Figaro, Andrew Simon, Tyler Huffman, Professor Mbaye Lo, and I) were able to get an interview with Minister al-Hittar, the mastermind behind the Yemeni Mujahadeen rehabilitation program and the current Minister of Awkaaf (Endowments or Trusts). Minister al-Hittar was formerly a Judge and the Minister of Human Rights in Yemen. The Ministry of Awkaaf is one of the most powerful Ministries in Yemen and it has jurisdiction over all matters of religion as well as property rights. The question of what to do with homegrown terrorists is poignant in the current political climate, but particularly so in the aftermath of the recent Marib bombings that took place in Yemen and that was caused by an escaped convict and terrorist. This interview took place before the Marib bombings. Here on the Duke Engage Blog, I present for your reading pleasure the Duke Engage in Yemen (DEY? Am I allowed to say that Professors Lo, cooke, and/or Lawrence?) team’s interview with Minister of Awkaaf, Minister al-Hittar, translation into English courtesy of Professor Lo.



Minister al-Hittar : Welcome!

Duke Engage Team: (various assortments of thank yous, pleased to meet yous, and Asslamu-alaikums, followed by introductions. After the formalities the first questions begin.) Our professor told us about your Afghan Arab program. Talk about it. (this was asked in Arabic)

Minister al-Hittar:
The idea of dialogue with the people from Afghanistan and others who are radical in their beliefs. (pause for rumination) Dialogue is an integral part of the Qur’an( note: I will be spelling the Qur’an in this way rather than as “Quran” or “Koran” just in case Professor Lawrence reads this article and is tempted to retroactively flunk me from his class for my gross butchering of that word). It is the message you have in the Torah and the Bible. Dialogue is a part of human nature. The first step in the creation of human beings was dialogue.
The Qur’an addresses the idea of dialogue with people we don’t agree with. The Pharaoh called himself a god. He said that he was the creator of Mankind. And even then, God granted a dialogue with the Pharaoh. This is an example for us to talk with people, regardless of how bad they are. No matter how much we agree or disagree with them, we should not avoid talking with them.
It is under this principle, that we dialogue with the people from Afghanistan. In the tradition found in all religious scriptures, as transmitted by Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, Jonas, etc. Dialogue is a necessity.
There was a group of Yemeni kids that came back from Afghanistan, and they were arrested by security. They committed no crime, except where they came from. The Judge has supreme authority in this situation, and as I was a Judge at that time, (not what was actually said, just what I think was meant) I decided that we should let them go, or bring some case against them or else we would be oppressors. And those kids had their views and they didn’t want to change them.
If my friend Andrew (gently grabs hold of Andrews arm) wanted to attack someone, can I say that I am going to keep him by me and not let him go? Or should I just talk to him and convince him not to do what he wanted to do?
If I were to hold him back, he might try to fight back. But if I have a rational argument with him, he might change his mind. That is why I saw dialogue as the best way to make people change their views and their manners in a very self motivated way.
The problems of cultures and ideas can only be addressed through dialogue. If you have an idea, Isabelle, you have to implement it. If I use force to prevent you, maybe you will feel antagonized and pursue what you wanted to do.
But if I try to convince you of the logic of my argument, you might change your mind. We may agree and disagree, but dialogue is the best way to reach a compromise. It is a necessity amongst human beings. I believe that through dialogue we can change their minds and their convictions. The pen and the tongue are the most powerful tools. Tools that can change anything.

(Judge al-Hittar Minister of Religious Affairs and Endowments)

I am glad that, through dialogue, we were able to make a lot of change. To successfully find jobs for them (the Arab Afghans). And let them live peacefully in society. The only condition was that they had to give up violence.
We help them get jobs, because a job puts a person in a situation where he has options. When you are living a violent life, you have two options: either you are a killer or you are dead. By giving them jobs, we offer them the ability to reject both options. When they decide to not be either, they can choose a third option, to be peaceful in society.
In addition to jobs, we attempt to address specific ideological issues. Because it (terrorism) is not only offensive to Muslims, it is offensive to Islam. This is because it gives a wrong picture of Islam. Islam is a religion of Freedom, Justice, Equality, Mercy, Peace. These people when they come back from Afghanistan, didn’t have this understanding. As the Judge, I said that we had to address the root cause of this disease.
The third part of our program was the relationship between the police and these kids. We asked the police to not follow them (the kids) illegally. They have to give them their rights. And we of course had to ask the kids to stop any terrorist acts.
I believed that this would help Yemen pacify itself: no civil wars, no strife. Since December, 2002, Yemen has no witnessed any terrorist attacks, even though everyone in the world thought that Yemen would be the next Afghanistan, the most traumatic country. And I have to say proudly, that if we ignore two events that took place in the last two years, we can say that no terrorist act took place in Yemen at all. (This was of course, prior to the recent Marib bombings, so I suppose that we must assume that three events did not take place to say that no terrorist act has ever taken place in Yemen.)
Another benefit of this policy is that we were able to release hundred of people who were arrested with no legal case against them. Because if they commited a crime, it is a civil issue, but if they did not commit a crime, we let them go. This was at a national level in Yemen.
On an international level, this dialogue became the cutting edge of debate and showed people that Yemen is a civil country. Many people came to Yemen to learn about dialogue. If you look at the Internet now, you will see that this issue is covered in 800 pages!
Yemen used a non-military option which was more effective than a military option in this situation. We have shown the World that dialogue is the right way to handle these kinds of situations.

Duke Engage Team:
How do these conversations work? (This question was asked in Arabic)

Minister al-Hittar:
Dialogue is an art and a science. You have to diagnose the ideological diseases first. You have to determine your goals, as well as your points of reference. You must define your objectives, as well as create a time frame in which you will work.
You must also give the other people an idea of what you are planning to do, and give them absolute freedom to express their views and feelings. You must follow a scientific methodology when running these kinds of programs.
We need to sit with them as equals, as I am right now sitting with you. We must give them the choice to say what they want to say. After this framework, we divided them up into groups of six or less.

Duke Engage Team:
How did you divide them up? (This question was asked in English)

Minister al-Hittar:
We divided them according to level. Some are more intellectually challenged and some are more radical. We start with the more radical and then we go from there.

Duke Engage Team:
What happens when the program fails? (This question was asked in English)

Minister al-Hittar:
Psychologists say that it is possible for every individual to respond to you positively. If he doesn’t react well to you, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he disagrees with your message or that he will continue to do so in the future. Maybe you were not successful in conveying your message, such as when you ask Isabelle to post on Blackboard. (The later half of this sentence was courtesy of Professor Lo) We believe, therefore, that everyone is conducive to change.
And if he does not respond, we assume that there may have been something wrong with our strategy.
Our response from our dialogue with people from Al-Qaeda has been about 90% positive.
The more radical people have strong viewpoints and a strong belief in God. We know from an ideological viewpoint that some of their beliefs are wrong, and then we know that our priorities should be how to correct this issue. (We are told that we only have five minutes left)


Professor Lo:
Why are students, and in particular women, not allowed to visit Masjids (Mosques) here?

Judge al-Hittar:
Nothing should prevent students from visiting Masjids here. After all, we hope that one day you will all become Muslims. (nervous laughter from the room. Isabelle says Inshallah) We would be glad to allow women in Masjids. Maybe if people visit Masjids, they will have a positive view of Muslims. But if you happen to become Muslims, don’t be radical. Be Moderate. (more laughter)

Professor Lo:
What is the role of the Ministry of Endowments?

Judge al-Hittar:
We deal with Public and Private issues with equal footing for all citizens. This ministry represents the largest part of non-profit organizations in Yemen. What we mean by Endowments (Awkaaf) in Islam, are the endowments and rights of humans and animals. The idea is that humans and animals have rights. We also have to take care of those who can’t take care of themselves, such as the elderly.
The need of human beings in Yemen has some space in our work. This is what is meant by Awkaaf or Endowments. Our responsibility is to teach people their religious responsibilities.